1 00:00:03,670 --> 00:00:05,213 -Well, the flying saucer myths, 2 00:00:05,296 --> 00:00:06,840 there’s not a single verified 3 00:00:06,923 --> 00:00:10,677 or checked-out report which is at all connectable 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,221 with the possibility of extraterrestrial life. 5 00:00:14,014 --> 00:00:16,099 It’s all very pseudo-scientific. 6 00:00:17,350 --> 00:00:21,438 -Ufology is a mythology that’s based on superstition wrapped 7 00:00:22,522 --> 00:00:26,568 inside a fairy tale telling a story that’s simply not true. 8 00:00:29,821 --> 00:00:32,532 -There of course has been a stigma towards the scientific 9 00:00:32,615 --> 00:00:34,743 study of UAP/UFOs. 10 00:00:36,077 --> 00:00:38,079 This is something that has been, essentially, 11 00:00:38,163 --> 00:00:39,706 taboo for many, many decades. 12 00:00:40,540 --> 00:00:42,959 To talk about this as a scientist may have been 13 00:00:43,043 --> 00:00:44,836 considered professional suicide. 14 00:00:45,378 --> 00:00:46,838 -Maybe you can just set up, you know, 15 00:00:46,921 --> 00:00:48,089 the term 'abduction'. 16 00:00:48,506 --> 00:00:49,883 -I don’t wanna talk about abductions. 17 00:00:49,966 --> 00:00:51,843 -If you could give an overview of the major high 18 00:00:51,926 --> 00:00:53,470 watermarks of gathering anecdotal [evidence]. 19 00:00:53,553 --> 00:00:54,804 -Yeah, that’s what I don’t wanna talk about. 20 00:00:55,138 --> 00:00:58,266 -Okay. -Can we skip these questions? 21 00:00:58,850 --> 00:01:00,685 -Sure, sure. Sure. -Oh, god. 22 00:01:00,769 --> 00:01:02,395 Do I really want to say anything? 23 00:01:02,479 --> 00:01:04,064 -Oh, I’ll tell you something off-camera. 24 00:01:04,147 --> 00:01:05,523 -Okay. -Okay. 25 00:01:06,274 --> 00:01:09,069 -Since 2017, and the articles that were published 26 00:01:09,152 --> 00:01:10,904 in the New York Times, 27 00:01:10,987 --> 00:01:13,865 it was an occasion when more scientists became 28 00:01:13,948 --> 00:01:16,868 aware that Unidentified Aerial Phenomena could 29 00:01:16,951 --> 00:01:18,703 justify a scientific investigation. 30 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:23,041 -We are now no longer talking about whether 31 00:01:23,124 --> 00:01:25,168 there are UFOS/UAP. 32 00:01:26,252 --> 00:01:29,005 The question now is, what are these things, 33 00:01:29,089 --> 00:01:30,715 and where are they coming from? 34 00:01:31,591 --> 00:01:34,219 -We don’t know what these things are. 35 00:01:34,928 --> 00:01:37,138 I mean who couldn’t be interested in this? 36 00:01:37,931 --> 00:01:39,641 -We are trying to bring this subject to the 37 00:01:39,724 --> 00:01:41,559 mainstream of science. 38 00:01:41,643 --> 00:01:44,854 Look forward to identifying the unidentified. 39 00:01:46,272 --> 00:01:47,857 -One of my colleagues asked me, 40 00:01:47,941 --> 00:01:49,943 “Why are you studying these things? 41 00:01:50,026 --> 00:01:51,778 Why would you do this to yourself?” 42 00:01:51,861 --> 00:01:53,071 And I said, 43 00:01:53,154 --> 00:01:55,657 “This really could be the biggest discovery 44 00:01:55,740 --> 00:01:57,283 in human history. 45 00:01:57,367 --> 00:01:59,536 And as a scientist, I can’t walk away from that.” 46 00:02:00,328 --> 00:02:02,539 [♪ theme music playing] 47 00:02:02,622 --> 00:02:04,207 -We get reports every night. 48 00:02:04,874 --> 00:02:06,334 -I don't know what the hell it is. 49 00:02:06,417 --> 00:02:07,919 -It's rotating right around it. 50 00:02:09,129 --> 00:02:11,923 [♪ theme music playing] 51 00:02:20,306 --> 00:02:23,393 -Anomalies are observations or phenomena 52 00:02:23,852 --> 00:02:27,188 that resist explanation in terms of prevailing beliefs. 53 00:02:29,315 --> 00:02:31,484 Anomalies are often not immediately taken 54 00:02:31,568 --> 00:02:33,069 seriously by scientists. 55 00:02:33,778 --> 00:02:35,822 A really good example of this is meteorites. 56 00:02:36,906 --> 00:02:38,783 For centuries, it was denied that rocks fall 57 00:02:38,867 --> 00:02:40,326 from the sky. 58 00:02:41,411 --> 00:02:43,705 This was a phenomenon that was presumed to be magical 59 00:02:43,788 --> 00:02:45,039 in some way. 60 00:02:45,415 --> 00:02:47,167 It was widely ridiculed. 61 00:02:48,334 --> 00:02:50,670 And then in the last few decades of the 1700s, 62 00:02:50,753 --> 00:02:52,755 there were mass sightings and there was material recovered 63 00:02:52,839 --> 00:02:55,884 and a physicist by the name of Ernst Chladni looked 64 00:02:55,967 --> 00:03:00,221 at almost 20 cases and he concluded from this 65 00:03:00,305 --> 00:03:02,098 that this phenomenon is actually real. 66 00:03:03,349 --> 00:03:05,351 He suggested that these rocks are actually coming 67 00:03:05,435 --> 00:03:07,312 from outer space. 68 00:03:07,395 --> 00:03:11,191 And so that discovery overturned a widely held idea 69 00:03:11,274 --> 00:03:13,902 that interplanetary space is completely empty. 70 00:03:15,236 --> 00:03:17,947 And so part of the challenge of scientists is to push aside 71 00:03:18,031 --> 00:03:20,241 all of the popular explanations in order to 72 00:03:20,325 --> 00:03:22,368 acknowledge the phenomenon itself is real. 73 00:03:25,455 --> 00:03:26,831 So in the case of UAP, 74 00:03:26,915 --> 00:03:30,460 these phenomena really seem to fall outside of 75 00:03:30,543 --> 00:03:31,878 what we expect. 76 00:03:33,671 --> 00:03:36,716 And so myself and other scientists have advocated, 77 00:03:36,799 --> 00:03:39,510 simply for the study of the phenomena. 78 00:03:39,969 --> 00:03:42,555 Let's try to detect it and let's try to characterize it. 79 00:03:44,390 --> 00:03:47,435 -2017 really started it all. 80 00:03:47,518 --> 00:03:48,561 There was a lot going on. 81 00:03:48,645 --> 00:03:51,606 You have the New York Times article where we learned that 82 00:03:51,689 --> 00:03:54,359 the Pentagon had been studying UFOs for years and 83 00:03:55,693 --> 00:03:58,196 later there was the release of the three Navy videos, 84 00:03:58,738 --> 00:04:00,657 which were interesting and exciting. 85 00:04:00,740 --> 00:04:03,076 You really had this realization that you know, 86 00:04:03,159 --> 00:04:06,037 oh my God, some aspect of this is real. 87 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:11,960 For me, as a scientist, 88 00:04:12,043 --> 00:04:14,545 what’s interesting is that the more you get into this, 89 00:04:14,629 --> 00:04:16,005 the more unbelievable it gets, 90 00:04:17,757 --> 00:04:19,926 which makes you wonder what’s really going on. 91 00:04:22,011 --> 00:04:23,304 My name is Kevin Knuth. 92 00:04:23,388 --> 00:04:25,682 I'm a professor of physics at the University at Albany. 93 00:04:26,808 --> 00:04:28,851 I mainly focus on studying exoplanets, 94 00:04:28,935 --> 00:04:30,395 planets orbiting other stars. 95 00:04:31,479 --> 00:04:34,357 But I also do some work related to the physics of UAPs. 96 00:04:35,984 --> 00:04:38,820 These are clearly anomalous things that we 97 00:04:38,903 --> 00:04:40,405 don't know what they are. 98 00:04:40,488 --> 00:04:41,698 And that's, that's exciting. 99 00:04:42,448 --> 00:04:45,618 But I had never seen a UAP and I didn't have equipment 100 00:04:45,702 --> 00:04:46,995 to go look for them. 101 00:04:47,078 --> 00:04:49,414 So I just started reading up on them and learning about 102 00:04:49,497 --> 00:04:50,707 what has been observed. 103 00:04:51,541 --> 00:04:53,793 So, I learned about the AATIP Program and that our 104 00:04:53,876 --> 00:04:55,545 government had been studying UFOs. 105 00:04:57,297 --> 00:05:00,133 They defined five "observables," they called them. 106 00:05:00,758 --> 00:05:03,803 Five characteristics that were unique to UAPs. 107 00:05:05,346 --> 00:05:07,056 One of these was transmedium travel, 108 00:05:07,890 --> 00:05:10,601 the ability to travel from one medium to another, 109 00:05:10,685 --> 00:05:12,103 air to water typically. 110 00:05:13,229 --> 00:05:15,064 Another one is instantaneous acceleration. 111 00:05:15,773 --> 00:05:18,318 So these things go from zero velocity to an extremely 112 00:05:18,401 --> 00:05:20,403 high velocity in a very short period of time. 113 00:05:22,530 --> 00:05:24,115 Another is a hypersonic speeds. 114 00:05:24,782 --> 00:05:26,701 That's the ability to fly through the air without a 115 00:05:26,784 --> 00:05:28,161 sonic boom or a fireball. 116 00:05:28,953 --> 00:05:31,622 Another is low visibility or cloaking. 117 00:05:31,706 --> 00:05:34,625 These objects can kind of fade away or disappear 118 00:05:34,709 --> 00:05:36,085 and reappear again. 119 00:05:36,627 --> 00:05:38,546 And finally, no apparent propulsion. 120 00:05:38,629 --> 00:05:41,132 So objects that are able to fly and we don't know how. 121 00:05:42,842 --> 00:05:45,053 Those are very strange behaviors that we 122 00:05:45,136 --> 00:05:46,804 really don't understand. 123 00:05:46,888 --> 00:05:49,140 And so I thought maybe I can apply what I've done most of my 124 00:05:49,223 --> 00:05:52,560 life to cases to try to learn something about UAPs. 125 00:05:55,313 --> 00:05:59,442 I focused on the Nimitz 2004 incident because of all of the 126 00:05:59,525 --> 00:06:00,651 data that was collected. 127 00:06:06,699 --> 00:06:08,659 -In November of 2004, 128 00:06:08,993 --> 00:06:11,037 I was a Navy Commander Super Hornet Pilot. 129 00:06:12,038 --> 00:06:14,374 We were flying, we were training our aircrew. 130 00:06:14,457 --> 00:06:17,502 The USS Princeton is using their radars to direct us. 131 00:06:20,088 --> 00:06:21,923 The ship came up and said, "Hey sir, 132 00:06:22,006 --> 00:06:23,966 we're going to hold on training today." 133 00:06:25,176 --> 00:06:27,261 They said, "Hey, we got real-world investigation. 134 00:06:27,345 --> 00:06:28,679 We got an object." 135 00:06:28,763 --> 00:06:30,515 They said, "We've been seeing these things on radar. 136 00:06:30,598 --> 00:06:32,350 We have no idea what they are." 137 00:06:32,850 --> 00:06:36,062 To investigate they turned us off to the west and they asked 138 00:06:36,145 --> 00:06:37,522 what kind of weapons we have on board. 139 00:06:39,565 --> 00:06:41,526 So we're kinda doing this, looking around to see where 140 00:06:41,609 --> 00:06:43,778 it's at because it's somewhere around you and you don't know. 141 00:06:45,071 --> 00:06:47,573 And I looked out, I go, "What is that?" 142 00:06:47,657 --> 00:06:50,701 And I saw a long cylindrical white object: 143 00:06:50,785 --> 00:06:52,912 no windows, no wings, 144 00:06:52,995 --> 00:06:56,457 no visual signs of propulsion roughly 40 feet long, 145 00:06:56,874 --> 00:06:58,292 that looked like a giant Tic-Tac. 146 00:07:00,253 --> 00:07:02,422 And this thing was going like this and I describe it 147 00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:04,549 as like if you put a ping-pong ball and it was bouncing 148 00:07:04,632 --> 00:07:06,134 off a wall. 149 00:07:06,217 --> 00:07:07,677 And as I come up I can see him as he's crossing 150 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:08,845 in front of me, 151 00:07:08,928 --> 00:07:10,638 it starts to accelerate, gets right on my nose, 152 00:07:11,264 --> 00:07:12,974 and disappears. 153 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:18,271 [Kevin Knuth] The Nimitz case was quite interesting because 154 00:07:18,354 --> 00:07:20,815 I could somewhat reliably estimate 155 00:07:20,898 --> 00:07:22,775 accelerations and speeds. 156 00:07:24,735 --> 00:07:28,156 The radar operator had been noticing that there were 157 00:07:28,239 --> 00:07:32,034 objects that would appear on his radar and these objects 158 00:07:32,577 --> 00:07:35,997 would periodically drop from 28,000 feet to sea level 159 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,582 in .78 seconds. 160 00:07:38,541 --> 00:07:40,501 I mean, you're looking at dropping five and a half miles 161 00:07:40,585 --> 00:07:41,961 in less than a second. 162 00:07:42,587 --> 00:07:43,671 And if you work through this, 163 00:07:43,754 --> 00:07:45,631 you find out that the accelerations are 164 00:07:45,715 --> 00:07:48,134 on the order of 5,000 times the acceleration of gravity, 165 00:07:49,635 --> 00:07:52,221 which is extremely high, 166 00:07:53,806 --> 00:07:55,558 that’s extremely high acceleration. 167 00:07:56,601 --> 00:07:58,144 So, I mean, the F-35 fighter, 168 00:07:58,227 --> 00:08:00,855 the wings will rip off at only 13 and a half Gs. 169 00:08:02,231 --> 00:08:04,942 And we're looking at something like over 5,000 Gs. 170 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,280 The altitude and the time that it took for this maneuver were 171 00:08:09,906 --> 00:08:14,035 all estimated from the radar data and we learned about that 172 00:08:14,118 --> 00:08:17,079 through speaking with the radar operator. 173 00:08:17,914 --> 00:08:21,083 Every time the pilots were being directed to one of these 174 00:08:21,167 --> 00:08:23,753 objects, they actually encountered an object. 175 00:08:25,004 --> 00:08:26,923 And of course, there was the video that we all saw. 176 00:08:27,715 --> 00:08:30,468 So that is evidence that the radar wasn't malfunctioning. 177 00:08:32,011 --> 00:08:34,555 So these are real objects doing real things. 178 00:08:36,098 --> 00:08:38,351 If the data we have already is accurate, 179 00:08:39,810 --> 00:08:41,604 they're clearly going faster than most of 180 00:08:41,687 --> 00:08:42,980 our spaceships travel. 181 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:46,067 Could they be interstellar spacecraft being able to 182 00:08:46,150 --> 00:08:47,610 get up to that speed? 183 00:08:48,444 --> 00:08:50,321 Yes, they could be interstellar spacecraft. 184 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,782 It's really quite shocking. 185 00:08:54,700 --> 00:08:57,453 I was always interested in UFOs as I was in space. 186 00:09:00,081 --> 00:09:01,832 I was 12 years old when Star Wars came out, 187 00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:04,418 so that had quite an impression on me. 188 00:09:07,505 --> 00:09:11,217 And around that time we had a TV show In Search Of 189 00:09:11,300 --> 00:09:12,635 with Leonard Nimoy. 190 00:09:13,719 --> 00:09:15,972 And there were often stories about UFOs in that, 191 00:09:16,055 --> 00:09:17,932 which were intriguing and interesting. 192 00:09:18,766 --> 00:09:20,560 [Leonard Nimoy] They’ve been seen but fleetingly. 193 00:09:20,643 --> 00:09:22,520 And their extraordinary presence creates 194 00:09:22,603 --> 00:09:23,980 a frightening mystery. 195 00:09:24,605 --> 00:09:25,690 [Kevin Knuth] Of course I was skeptical and 196 00:09:25,773 --> 00:09:27,149 I'm still skeptical, 197 00:09:27,233 --> 00:09:29,777 but you can't be skeptical to the point of 198 00:09:29,860 --> 00:09:31,904 shutting down conversation and shutting down 199 00:09:31,988 --> 00:09:33,406 exploration and study. 200 00:09:33,739 --> 00:09:35,241 That's potentially dangerous. 201 00:09:35,950 --> 00:09:38,452 You know, especially when you hear from the Navy. 202 00:09:38,828 --> 00:09:40,871 When the Navy's concerned, it's a different issue. 203 00:09:42,957 --> 00:09:46,043 -So I think when the Navy comes out and says it's anomalous, 204 00:09:46,127 --> 00:09:48,212 I'm going to take them at face value, 205 00:09:48,588 --> 00:09:50,047 it means it's unexplained. 206 00:09:50,131 --> 00:09:52,091 But the possibility that one of our adversaries has 207 00:09:52,174 --> 00:09:54,969 next-generation technology also has to be explored. 208 00:09:56,929 --> 00:10:00,433 [Kevin Knuth] While it's possible that they could be the 209 00:10:00,516 --> 00:10:04,520 craft from a foreign adversary or experimental craft, 210 00:10:05,187 --> 00:10:07,273 it's hard to believe that if that were the case, 211 00:10:07,356 --> 00:10:08,899 that they wouldn't be used. 212 00:10:08,983 --> 00:10:10,818 They would be incredibly useful for the military. 213 00:10:13,154 --> 00:10:17,199 Performing these calculations from the Nimitz case was far 214 00:10:17,283 --> 00:10:20,161 more anomalous than what I expected the results to be. 215 00:10:20,786 --> 00:10:22,747 The speeds and accelerations were just unreasonable. 216 00:10:23,789 --> 00:10:26,083 Not only could these be interstellar craft, 217 00:10:26,167 --> 00:10:28,169 but they could be excellent ones. 218 00:10:28,252 --> 00:10:30,212 These are huge discoveries that could have a huge 219 00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:31,464 impact on humanity. 220 00:10:32,298 --> 00:10:34,216 These are something that we really should understand 221 00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:35,593 what they are. 222 00:10:35,676 --> 00:10:38,095 Of course, you get much less data than you would hope for, 223 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,182 which makes it much harder to study. 224 00:10:48,147 --> 00:10:50,524 [Adam Frank] So when it comes to doing scientific studies of 225 00:10:50,608 --> 00:10:52,568 UFOs and UAPs, I have no problem with that. 226 00:10:53,402 --> 00:10:54,987 We just need better data. 227 00:10:55,363 --> 00:10:58,407 Understanding why UFOs have been sort of outside 228 00:10:58,491 --> 00:11:01,577 of science for so long really comes down to a single term, 229 00:11:02,244 --> 00:11:05,122 "standards of evidence," which I consider to be the 230 00:11:05,206 --> 00:11:08,626 most important and most boring topic in the universe. 231 00:11:11,629 --> 00:11:14,131 Science only works because we have very, 232 00:11:14,215 --> 00:11:18,511 very rigorous standards for what we consider to be evidence 233 00:11:18,594 --> 00:11:19,887 that supports a claim. 234 00:11:20,888 --> 00:11:23,641 The Navy pilot videos are only gonna take you so far. 235 00:11:24,266 --> 00:11:25,267 The problem with them, 236 00:11:25,351 --> 00:11:27,812 is those cameras are not scientific instruments. 237 00:11:27,895 --> 00:11:29,313 That's not what they were designed for. 238 00:11:29,397 --> 00:11:30,398 We don't know whether, 239 00:11:30,481 --> 00:11:32,024 was this instrument just refurbished, 240 00:11:32,108 --> 00:11:33,693 what kind of software does it have? 241 00:11:34,193 --> 00:11:36,404 And you know that's not the way you take data. 242 00:11:37,321 --> 00:11:40,032 You could do the same thing about radar and how often there 243 00:11:40,116 --> 00:11:41,033 can be problems. 244 00:11:41,117 --> 00:11:42,993 You know, the whole point of science is you have to be able 245 00:11:43,077 --> 00:11:44,787 to control your instruments. 246 00:11:45,996 --> 00:11:49,750 What needs to happen for true scientific investigation 247 00:11:49,834 --> 00:11:53,295 of UAP phenomena is you build your own instruments. 248 00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:57,133 You start from scratch, and you design a research program, 249 00:11:57,216 --> 00:11:58,676 and let's see where it leads. 250 00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:07,351 [Alex Delacroix] Hi, Avi. 251 00:12:07,435 --> 00:12:10,062 -Hi, Alex. So, you are there already? 252 00:12:10,146 --> 00:12:12,273 -Yes I’m on site. -Okay we are driving now. 253 00:12:14,024 --> 00:12:16,402 My name is Avi Loeb and currently, 254 00:12:16,819 --> 00:12:19,155 I am leading the Galileo Project that was 255 00:12:19,238 --> 00:12:21,240 established at Harvard University for 256 00:12:21,323 --> 00:12:23,117 the scientific research of 257 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,745 unidentified anomalous phenomena. 258 00:12:27,538 --> 00:12:29,999 I'm a theoretical astrophysicist, 259 00:12:30,583 --> 00:12:34,336 I started my career studying the first stars and galaxies. 260 00:12:34,420 --> 00:12:37,214 Now, I'm also interested in the question of whether 261 00:12:37,298 --> 00:12:39,091 UAPs are real. 262 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,887 We’re heading to Pigeon Run, 263 00:12:42,970 --> 00:12:46,474 which is the code name for the Galileo Project observatory, 264 00:12:47,224 --> 00:12:49,894 which is the site where we get data. 265 00:12:50,478 --> 00:12:53,063 If there are any UAPs out there we’ll see them. 266 00:12:55,983 --> 00:12:59,361 The Galileo Project was funded by generous donations at 267 00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:01,113 a few million dollars. 268 00:13:02,072 --> 00:13:04,909 What we needed is an observatory that monitors the 269 00:13:04,992 --> 00:13:08,329 entire sky all the time with fully controlled 270 00:13:08,412 --> 00:13:09,830 scientific instruments. 271 00:13:10,831 --> 00:13:13,125 This is the scientific approach. 272 00:13:13,667 --> 00:13:14,752 At the same time, 273 00:13:14,835 --> 00:13:17,463 there is pushback from the scientific community 274 00:13:17,546 --> 00:13:21,425 to such studies because it goes against the status quo 275 00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:24,428 of saying we are alone, we haven’t seen anything. 276 00:13:25,971 --> 00:13:28,265 There are billions of other stars in the 277 00:13:28,349 --> 00:13:29,975 Milky Way galaxy alone. 278 00:13:30,476 --> 00:13:33,103 By now we know that a substantial fraction 279 00:13:33,187 --> 00:13:34,688 of all stars, 280 00:13:34,772 --> 00:13:36,232 maybe a quarter of them, 281 00:13:36,315 --> 00:13:39,401 have planets like the Earth where liquid water 282 00:13:39,485 --> 00:13:41,987 may exist on the surface and the chemistry of life 283 00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:44,281 as we know it may blossom. 284 00:13:44,365 --> 00:13:47,910 And so the interesting question is are we alone? 285 00:13:52,456 --> 00:13:54,250 [reporter] The ultimate question, yet unanswered... 286 00:13:54,333 --> 00:13:55,876 ...are we alone in the universe? 287 00:13:56,210 --> 00:13:58,963 A Harvard astronomer theorizes it’s possible we are not. 288 00:14:00,589 --> 00:14:02,925 [Avi Loeb] On October 19th, 2017, 289 00:14:03,008 --> 00:14:06,428 the PANSTARRS telescope in Hawaii discovered an object 290 00:14:06,762 --> 00:14:09,014 that moves very fast. 291 00:14:09,473 --> 00:14:11,767 And it was given the name 'Oumuamua. 292 00:14:12,726 --> 00:14:15,229 -‘Oumuamua was a very exciting event for astronomers. 293 00:14:15,312 --> 00:14:18,899 It was the first time we’d ever seen a object coming from 294 00:14:18,983 --> 00:14:21,360 outside the solar system that was just passing through. 295 00:14:22,236 --> 00:14:25,239 And so what we expected was that it was going to be 296 00:14:25,322 --> 00:14:27,741 a comet or an asteroid. 297 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,494 But then Avi Loeb said, you know this could be an 298 00:14:30,578 --> 00:14:32,705 interstellar artifact, an artifact of technology. 299 00:14:33,998 --> 00:14:35,958 [reporter] When Harvard professor Dr. Avi Loeb 300 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,002 suggested the new discovery could be a sign of 301 00:14:38,085 --> 00:14:39,628 extraterrestrial life, 302 00:14:39,712 --> 00:14:42,548 it created a rift in the academic research community. 303 00:14:46,552 --> 00:14:48,637 [Avi Loeb] 'Oumuamua was discovered by the 304 00:14:48,721 --> 00:14:51,015 PANSTARRS Telescope in Hawaii. 305 00:14:52,474 --> 00:14:55,686 They found it was the size of a football field. 306 00:14:56,645 --> 00:14:59,899 And what was peculiar about it is that it was most 307 00:14:59,982 --> 00:15:02,776 likely flat in its shape based on the 308 00:15:02,860 --> 00:15:03,986 reflection of sunlight. 309 00:15:04,570 --> 00:15:07,239 And moreover, it was pushed away from the sun by some 310 00:15:07,323 --> 00:15:10,534 mysterious force without showing any cometary evaporation. 311 00:15:11,869 --> 00:15:14,872 So the question is what was pushing it away from the sun? 312 00:15:16,498 --> 00:15:20,169 My explanation to the unusual propulsion of ‘Oumuamua 313 00:15:20,252 --> 00:15:22,713 was that it was pushed by reflecting sunlight. 314 00:15:23,631 --> 00:15:24,840 For that to be the case, 315 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:28,677 the object had to be very thin like a membrane and 316 00:15:28,761 --> 00:15:30,638 nature doesn't make such objects. 317 00:15:32,389 --> 00:15:34,391 -Avi Loeb came out questioning whether it 318 00:15:34,475 --> 00:15:36,977 might be some kind of an alien artifact and 319 00:15:37,061 --> 00:15:38,312 not a natural object. 320 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:41,148 There was an outcry among the scientific community 321 00:15:41,523 --> 00:15:43,859 because for them this was an outrageous claim. 322 00:15:44,610 --> 00:15:48,197 There was a lot of pushback on Avi Loeb for daring 323 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,865 to draw that kind of conclusion. 324 00:15:54,036 --> 00:15:56,038 [Adam Frank] People who were, you know, experts in comets 325 00:15:56,121 --> 00:15:58,874 were able to postulate that it was perhaps a comet 326 00:15:58,958 --> 00:16:00,542 made out of frozen nitrogen, 327 00:16:00,626 --> 00:16:02,044 which, if it was outgassing, 328 00:16:02,127 --> 00:16:04,088 making jets would be very difficult to detect. 329 00:16:05,255 --> 00:16:07,383 [Avi Loeb] One suggestion was put forward that it may 330 00:16:07,466 --> 00:16:11,178 be a nitrogen iceberg chipped off the surface of a 331 00:16:11,261 --> 00:16:14,264 planet like Pluto that has solid nitrogen on its surface. 332 00:16:15,182 --> 00:16:17,601 But we've never seen nitrogen icebergs 333 00:16:17,685 --> 00:16:19,144 in the solar system. 334 00:16:19,770 --> 00:16:22,064 [Leslie Kean] Avi Loeb said that basically, 335 00:16:22,147 --> 00:16:25,651 they were just taking one anomalous possible explanation 336 00:16:25,734 --> 00:16:28,696 and replacing it with another anomalous possible explanation, 337 00:16:29,363 --> 00:16:31,532 and he didn't believe that that was the right one. 338 00:16:32,741 --> 00:16:36,662 For Avi Loeb the question of what ‘Oumuamua actually was 339 00:16:36,745 --> 00:16:38,789 was never definitively determined. 340 00:16:41,625 --> 00:16:43,377 [Adam Frank] One problem with ‘Oumuamua is it 341 00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:44,878 came through and it left. 342 00:16:44,962 --> 00:16:46,714 So we only had a little while to collect data. 343 00:16:47,297 --> 00:16:48,507 And if your claim is, 344 00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:50,551 “We're being visited by aliens from another planet,” 345 00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:53,262 you're going to need data to be able to even get, 346 00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:55,723 you know, a fraction of the way to 347 00:16:55,806 --> 00:16:57,182 supporting that claim. 348 00:16:59,351 --> 00:17:02,604 [Avi Loeb] To me, that was a very fair question to 349 00:17:03,272 --> 00:17:05,733 put out in the scientific literature. 350 00:17:05,816 --> 00:17:08,736 I thought it will inspire us to collect more evidence and 351 00:17:08,819 --> 00:17:11,405 encourage future data collection on 352 00:17:11,488 --> 00:17:13,365 objects like ‘Oumuamua. 353 00:17:13,449 --> 00:17:15,367 The only way for us to arrive at the truth is 354 00:17:15,451 --> 00:17:17,369 by collecting evidence, 355 00:17:17,453 --> 00:17:20,330 and that’s why I established the Galileo Project. 356 00:17:22,708 --> 00:17:25,127 -Hello Alex, how are things? -Oh pretty good. 357 00:17:25,878 --> 00:17:28,172 -PTZ’s working? Connected? Or- 358 00:17:28,255 --> 00:17:28,839 -Yes, yes it’s working. 359 00:17:29,757 --> 00:17:31,592 I’m going to fine-tune it and do some tests. 360 00:17:31,675 --> 00:17:32,801 -Okay, excellent. 361 00:17:33,969 --> 00:17:35,262 -My name is Alex Delacroix. 362 00:17:35,345 --> 00:17:37,514 My background was mechanical engineer 363 00:17:37,598 --> 00:17:39,475 at Cal Tech in astrophysics 364 00:17:39,558 --> 00:17:41,393 designing astrophysics instruments. 365 00:17:42,061 --> 00:17:43,687 So I design most of the instruments that are here 366 00:17:43,771 --> 00:17:45,564 and I’m assembling them, maintaining them. 367 00:17:46,565 --> 00:17:49,318 This is a direct view from the visible camera. 368 00:17:50,152 --> 00:17:52,821 You can really increase the size of the image and 369 00:17:52,905 --> 00:17:54,323 see exactly what it is. 370 00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:57,534 This was a satellite tumbling as an example. 371 00:17:57,618 --> 00:17:59,912 So it’s a pretty powerful instrument. 372 00:18:00,954 --> 00:18:04,333 [Avi Loeb] It took two years to assemble all the instruments, 373 00:18:05,459 --> 00:18:09,505 which include the radio sensors and an acoustic sensor 374 00:18:10,339 --> 00:18:12,841 that detects sound from the skies. 375 00:18:14,134 --> 00:18:16,178 -We hope to find the unknown. 376 00:18:16,678 --> 00:18:18,680 To be able to characterize and 377 00:18:18,764 --> 00:18:20,224 give a definition of the object that people 378 00:18:20,307 --> 00:18:21,850 have seen for years. 379 00:18:22,309 --> 00:18:23,435 It's extremely exciting. 380 00:18:24,353 --> 00:18:26,188 It’s difficult to stop working! 381 00:18:30,901 --> 00:18:32,903 [Alex Delacroix] So the data we’re collecting here 382 00:18:32,986 --> 00:18:35,864 transferred to Harvard for analysis with 383 00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:39,827 our AI system that Richard is developing with the team. 384 00:18:41,161 --> 00:18:42,913 -We're using artificial intelligence to sort through 385 00:18:42,996 --> 00:18:44,665 the data because it just wouldn't be feasible to have 386 00:18:44,748 --> 00:18:48,752 people sitting there watching the cameras entirely for 24/7. 387 00:18:49,503 --> 00:18:50,754 Humans are error-prone. 388 00:18:50,838 --> 00:18:53,715 So by having artificial intelligence look at our data, 389 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,926 rather than humans, it's quicker and also 390 00:18:56,009 --> 00:18:57,136 it's more reliable. 391 00:18:58,137 --> 00:18:59,721 At the moment the models are very good at 392 00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:01,932 just picking out objects in the sky and tracking them. 393 00:19:02,474 --> 00:19:05,811 And we are in the process of developing our models to 394 00:19:05,894 --> 00:19:08,480 actually differentiate known objects from unknown objects. 395 00:19:09,439 --> 00:19:11,650 And allow for things like, is it a bird? 396 00:19:11,733 --> 00:19:13,443 Is it an airplane? Is it a balloon? 397 00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:16,280 And from that we'll be able to properly analyze whether 398 00:19:16,363 --> 00:19:19,199 it's something that's behaving in a way that is not 399 00:19:19,283 --> 00:19:20,701 typical of known objects. 400 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,707 [Avi Loeb] We're training the system to report back whether 401 00:19:26,790 --> 00:19:30,127 there is anything anomalous, anything that looks unfamiliar. 402 00:19:31,003 --> 00:19:33,088 So far we haven't seen any, 403 00:19:33,172 --> 00:19:34,756 but we are just at the beginning. 404 00:19:36,550 --> 00:19:40,220 The goal is to build telescope systems and distribute them in 405 00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:42,556 many geographical locations. 406 00:19:42,639 --> 00:19:45,601 We are currently assembling a second one in Colorado. 407 00:19:46,435 --> 00:19:48,478 And my hope is that within the coming years, 408 00:19:48,979 --> 00:19:51,857 the observatories of the Galileo Project will be able to 409 00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:56,153 tell if there is anything out there that appears anomalous. 410 00:19:59,198 --> 00:20:02,075 A number of reporters recently gave me the title of 411 00:20:02,534 --> 00:20:03,785 the “Alien Hunter.” 412 00:20:04,912 --> 00:20:07,039 I don't care how you call me. 413 00:20:07,122 --> 00:20:10,167 If a question has huge significance for 414 00:20:10,250 --> 00:20:12,961 the future of humanity, you cannot ignore it. 415 00:20:21,929 --> 00:20:25,098 -Avi Loeb is far from the first scientist to have been 416 00:20:25,182 --> 00:20:27,351 ridiculed for studying UAP. 417 00:20:28,477 --> 00:20:31,188 I'm Jacob Haqq Misra. I'm an astrobiologist. 418 00:20:31,271 --> 00:20:32,522 And as a scientist, 419 00:20:32,606 --> 00:20:34,566 I sometimes do get a little perplexed why there's not more 420 00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:37,527 excitement about this UAP topic because there's 421 00:20:37,611 --> 00:20:39,196 something we don't know. 422 00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:41,281 It deserves study until we figure out what it is. 423 00:20:42,157 --> 00:20:44,868 What got me interested in taking this seriously was when 424 00:20:44,952 --> 00:20:46,495 I learned about James McDonald. 425 00:20:47,746 --> 00:20:49,623 -In my opinion, the UFO problem is the 426 00:20:49,706 --> 00:20:51,833 greatest scientific problem of our times. 427 00:20:53,043 --> 00:20:54,753 [Wesley Watters] James McDonald was an 428 00:20:54,836 --> 00:20:56,630 eminent atmospheric physicist. 429 00:20:56,713 --> 00:20:58,257 And as an atmospheric scientist, 430 00:20:58,340 --> 00:21:01,927 he was especially well-equipped to interpret and 431 00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:03,887 understand UFO reports. 432 00:21:04,721 --> 00:21:07,557 Especially anything related to atmospheric optical phenomena 433 00:21:08,141 --> 00:21:09,893 like sun dogs. 434 00:21:09,977 --> 00:21:11,770 He was very familiar with weather balloons and thought 435 00:21:11,853 --> 00:21:14,773 very deeply about how mirages, for example, 436 00:21:15,607 --> 00:21:17,526 how high they could be above the horizon. 437 00:21:18,902 --> 00:21:23,740 -McDonald was meticulous and he actually took the time 438 00:21:23,824 --> 00:21:25,659 to look into the cases from Project Blue Book, 439 00:21:26,118 --> 00:21:29,705 the official longest-term Air Force analysis of UFOs. 440 00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:33,250 [James McDonald] My study of the problem leads me 441 00:21:33,333 --> 00:21:34,459 to take the position that 442 00:21:34,543 --> 00:21:36,712 there has not been application of the best 443 00:21:36,795 --> 00:21:38,338 scientific facilities available, 444 00:21:38,422 --> 00:21:40,716 adding up to inadequate UFO investigations. 445 00:21:41,258 --> 00:21:43,427 I take, as an example, the Lakenheath case on the 446 00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:44,636 east coast of England. 447 00:21:49,266 --> 00:21:50,976 [Marik Von Rennenkampff] Lakenheath is one of the most 448 00:21:51,059 --> 00:21:53,353 bizarre UFO cases in history. 449 00:21:55,188 --> 00:21:59,693 In August of 1956, two separate radar stations 450 00:22:01,570 --> 00:22:03,447 tracked multiple UFOs. 451 00:22:04,239 --> 00:22:07,200 Objects moving at 12,000 miles per hour 452 00:22:08,368 --> 00:22:10,829 conducting very, very strange maneuvers. 453 00:22:11,621 --> 00:22:14,624 Formations of objects bunching up into one object and 454 00:22:14,708 --> 00:22:16,168 then moving off at rapid speeds. 455 00:22:16,626 --> 00:22:18,587 That happened on three separate occasions. 456 00:22:19,963 --> 00:22:21,757 [James McDonald] There was a C-47 pilot at 4,000 feet 457 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:22,841 over the field 458 00:22:22,924 --> 00:22:25,052 who, concurrent with the radar, 459 00:22:25,135 --> 00:22:27,220 saw a bright object move below his aircraft from 460 00:22:27,304 --> 00:22:28,430 west to east. 461 00:22:28,513 --> 00:22:30,265 From that time on, both radar and visual 462 00:22:30,349 --> 00:22:31,516 observers were available. 463 00:22:32,642 --> 00:22:34,561 -So this case was particularly noteworthy to 464 00:22:34,644 --> 00:22:37,647 McDonald because it contained all the elements that 465 00:22:37,731 --> 00:22:39,274 we hoped for, for a good UFO case. 466 00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:42,152 There were numerous pilots that saw these. 467 00:22:42,235 --> 00:22:45,364 There was both ground-based and airborne radar 468 00:22:45,697 --> 00:22:46,907 that captured these, 469 00:22:46,990 --> 00:22:49,701 so multiple modes of collecting data. 470 00:22:51,161 --> 00:22:53,997 If, according to McDonald, Project Blue Book had been 471 00:22:54,081 --> 00:22:57,417 adequately staffed with scientists who were approaching 472 00:22:58,043 --> 00:23:00,545 this with the kind of rigor that he was doing, 473 00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:02,798 maybe he would've learned something more, 474 00:23:02,881 --> 00:23:04,341 instead of just dismissing this as a case 475 00:23:04,424 --> 00:23:05,842 that could be explained. 476 00:23:06,593 --> 00:23:09,054 So to McDonald, this is one of the truly puzzling cases, 477 00:23:09,137 --> 00:23:11,264 that should have received much more attention than it did. 478 00:23:12,015 --> 00:23:14,434 [James McDonald] To regard this as anything but a problem 479 00:23:14,518 --> 00:23:16,436 of considerable scientific importance, 480 00:23:16,812 --> 00:23:19,689 I think will be to miss something that we've already 481 00:23:19,773 --> 00:23:20,816 missed far too long. 482 00:23:25,362 --> 00:23:27,489 -Many people say that, okay, 483 00:23:27,572 --> 00:23:30,409 there is no evidence for UFOs, why are you wasting your time? 484 00:23:31,326 --> 00:23:32,953 But it's a catch-22. 485 00:23:33,036 --> 00:23:35,747 If nobody ever puts in one hour into this research, 486 00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:37,791 we will never get the evidence. 487 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,087 It's time to think of alternative ways of searching 488 00:23:42,170 --> 00:23:43,797 for UFOs around the earth. 489 00:23:49,428 --> 00:23:50,679 [Beatriz Villarroel] So the Galileo project, 490 00:23:50,762 --> 00:23:52,973 they're looking for everything that passes on the sky. 491 00:23:53,890 --> 00:23:55,475 They are looking also inside our atmosphere. 492 00:23:56,435 --> 00:23:58,103 My project is very different. 493 00:23:58,186 --> 00:24:01,731 I'm looking very deep into the solar system by using 494 00:24:01,815 --> 00:24:03,150 these old photographic plates. 495 00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:11,867 My name is Beatriz Villarroel. 496 00:24:11,950 --> 00:24:13,076 I'm an astronomer. 497 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,495 I work at the Nordic Institute for Theoretical Physics 498 00:24:16,037 --> 00:24:17,497 in Stockholm. 499 00:24:17,581 --> 00:24:21,460 I lead the project where we are looking for identifiable 500 00:24:21,543 --> 00:24:23,170 signatures of alien spaceships. 501 00:24:25,505 --> 00:24:27,883 [Jacob Misra] There are a lot of efforts in the search 502 00:24:27,966 --> 00:24:30,218 for life elsewhere that are based on 503 00:24:30,302 --> 00:24:32,012 new technologies and collecting new data. 504 00:24:32,596 --> 00:24:35,765 But there is also a lot that could potentially be learned 505 00:24:35,849 --> 00:24:37,225 from archival sources of data. 506 00:24:38,018 --> 00:24:40,562 Perhaps the discovery of extraterrestrial life is 507 00:24:40,645 --> 00:24:42,939 already on some photographic plate and 508 00:24:43,023 --> 00:24:44,483 we just haven't looked at it right. 509 00:24:48,195 --> 00:24:49,863 [Beatriz Villarroel] The first thing I used was images 510 00:24:49,946 --> 00:24:52,616 from the Palomar Observatory in the early 1950s. 511 00:24:53,867 --> 00:24:56,786 In the past, when one was taking images of the sky, 512 00:24:56,870 --> 00:25:00,790 one had these big glass plates and one put it in 513 00:25:00,874 --> 00:25:04,294 the telescope and let it expose an image for 514 00:25:04,377 --> 00:25:05,921 maybe 50 minutes. 515 00:25:06,004 --> 00:25:07,797 Like films. 516 00:25:08,673 --> 00:25:10,800 So we started studying these plates. 517 00:25:10,884 --> 00:25:13,803 I was sitting with 24,000 images and 518 00:25:13,887 --> 00:25:16,097 I looked them through, one by one, myself. 519 00:25:17,557 --> 00:25:21,102 Then I found that we had one image where nine objects 520 00:25:21,186 --> 00:25:23,104 seemed to appear and vanish within one hour, 521 00:25:23,647 --> 00:25:25,565 which was completely crazy. 522 00:25:26,858 --> 00:25:29,819 Because a star is not going to appear and vanish 523 00:25:29,903 --> 00:25:31,321 within one hour. 524 00:25:31,404 --> 00:25:33,240 That’s completely unthinkable. 525 00:25:34,491 --> 00:25:36,076 When I first found the nine transients, 526 00:25:36,159 --> 00:25:37,911 I thought that something must be wrong. 527 00:25:38,495 --> 00:25:41,498 A transient is a short-lived astrophysical phenomenon that 528 00:25:41,581 --> 00:25:43,166 you see is something that changes. 529 00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,627 Like a supernova is a transient. 530 00:25:45,710 --> 00:25:46,920 A comet is a transient. 531 00:25:48,463 --> 00:25:50,215 [Jacob Misra] One of the values in the approach 532 00:25:50,298 --> 00:25:53,009 Beatriz is taking, using historical plates, 533 00:25:54,219 --> 00:25:57,180 is these are astronomical observations of the sky before 534 00:25:57,264 --> 00:25:58,640 the satellite era. 535 00:25:58,723 --> 00:26:00,725 This is before Sputnik launched, 536 00:26:00,809 --> 00:26:04,354 before we had anything else artificial orbiting the planet. 537 00:26:05,313 --> 00:26:09,276 So if you find evidence of some sort of transient object 538 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,611 in the sky during the early 1950s, 539 00:26:12,153 --> 00:26:13,613 it can't be a human satellite, 540 00:26:13,697 --> 00:26:15,198 so what is it? 541 00:26:16,575 --> 00:26:18,118 [Beatriz Villarroel] So we started studying this case and 542 00:26:18,201 --> 00:26:20,537 we started doing all kind of tests to see what could be 543 00:26:20,620 --> 00:26:22,247 wrong with the image. 544 00:26:22,330 --> 00:26:23,623 We were worried that this could be some kind 545 00:26:23,707 --> 00:26:25,584 of plate defects. 546 00:26:25,667 --> 00:26:28,211 Let's say some kind of scratch on the plate. 547 00:26:29,254 --> 00:26:31,047 The thing with these plate defects is that they usually 548 00:26:31,131 --> 00:26:32,299 have random shapes, 549 00:26:32,382 --> 00:26:34,134 there is no reason why they would get a perfect 550 00:26:34,217 --> 00:26:35,844 starlike shape. 551 00:26:35,927 --> 00:26:37,095 It can happen maybe once. 552 00:26:37,178 --> 00:26:38,972 But our issue was that we had nine of them. 553 00:26:39,306 --> 00:26:40,974 It seems pretty unlikely. 554 00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:44,477 And we have kept finding examples of these interesting 555 00:26:44,561 --> 00:26:47,314 images of transients and vanishing objects. 556 00:26:48,857 --> 00:26:50,692 So here we see three stars, 557 00:26:51,693 --> 00:26:54,070 looking just like any other of the bright stars 558 00:26:54,154 --> 00:26:55,530 in the same field. 559 00:26:55,614 --> 00:26:59,492 They're there, and you can’t see them if you compare to the 560 00:26:59,576 --> 00:27:01,411 other image that is taken later. 561 00:27:02,370 --> 00:27:04,456 More excitingly and more recently we found our 562 00:27:04,539 --> 00:27:07,751 absolutely best candidate for Alien Probes around the earth. 563 00:27:08,918 --> 00:27:11,546 So what you see here are five flashes of light. 564 00:27:12,505 --> 00:27:15,300 And if you look there, they're not seen later. 565 00:27:16,384 --> 00:27:19,554 But they are also lying along a narrow stripe. 566 00:27:19,638 --> 00:27:24,726 The probability to find five random objects lying along this 567 00:27:24,809 --> 00:27:27,062 stripe is one in 10,000. 568 00:27:27,437 --> 00:27:28,855 If it's along one line, 569 00:27:28,938 --> 00:27:30,774 it could in principle be one object. 570 00:27:30,857 --> 00:27:32,484 Something that is moving. 571 00:27:32,567 --> 00:27:34,444 So it's a quite interesting image. 572 00:27:34,819 --> 00:27:36,780 It's a very unlikely alignment. 573 00:27:39,074 --> 00:27:42,786 We have to rule out every astronomical phenomenon we 574 00:27:42,869 --> 00:27:46,456 could think of like comets, asteroids, supernova. 575 00:27:48,249 --> 00:27:51,211 [Jacob Misra] The biggest criticism of Beatriz’s work is 576 00:27:51,294 --> 00:27:53,797 that it’s very, very difficult to explain what it 577 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,298 is you’ve found. 578 00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:57,676 So if you’re left with something that 579 00:27:57,759 --> 00:27:59,052 you can’t understand, 580 00:27:59,135 --> 00:28:01,221 and you perhaps have extraordinary hypotheses, 581 00:28:01,304 --> 00:28:02,931 like maybe these are extraterrestrials, 582 00:28:03,014 --> 00:28:04,099 maybe they are. 583 00:28:04,182 --> 00:28:05,183 But how do you know? 584 00:28:05,266 --> 00:28:07,435 How do you follow up on an observation that was 585 00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:09,104 taken over 50 years ago? 586 00:28:10,313 --> 00:28:11,648 [Beatriz Villarroel] Photographic plates capture 587 00:28:11,731 --> 00:28:13,566 one single image. 588 00:28:13,650 --> 00:28:17,362 And we want to have multiple images of the same phenomenon 589 00:28:17,445 --> 00:28:20,407 before we can claim a real E.T. probe. 590 00:28:22,117 --> 00:28:23,910 But there’s two fun coincidences when it comes to 591 00:28:23,993 --> 00:28:25,704 the dates of these transients. 592 00:28:27,122 --> 00:28:31,251 So the triple transient happens on the 19th of July, 1952, 593 00:28:31,876 --> 00:28:34,379 and a second from the 27th of July, 1952. 594 00:28:35,255 --> 00:28:39,801 They coincide with one of the most famous UFO flyovers called 595 00:28:39,884 --> 00:28:41,928 the Washington DC flyover. 596 00:28:46,015 --> 00:28:48,351 [Marik Von Rennenkampff] In the summer of 1952, 597 00:28:48,435 --> 00:28:50,520 over two consecutive weekends, 598 00:28:50,603 --> 00:28:53,356 was perhaps the most significant wave of UFO 599 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,358 sightings in U.S. history. 600 00:28:56,943 --> 00:28:59,195 [Beatriz Villarroel] Air traffic controllers could see 601 00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:01,614 multiple mysterious objects moving on their radars. 602 00:29:02,574 --> 00:29:04,534 And also, there were many witnesses, 603 00:29:04,617 --> 00:29:07,495 like pilots and stewards, that saw mysterious objects. 604 00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:12,375 The US Air Force held a press conference to discuss 605 00:29:12,459 --> 00:29:14,419 the “flying saucer” invasion. 606 00:29:15,545 --> 00:29:17,422 During this press conference, 607 00:29:17,505 --> 00:29:20,675 they said that everything were misidentifications. 608 00:29:21,509 --> 00:29:24,220 And this was based on the interpretation of an astronomer 609 00:29:24,304 --> 00:29:25,513 called Donald Menzel. 610 00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:28,224 [Donald Menzel] A layer of warm dry air 611 00:29:28,308 --> 00:29:30,727 will bend the radar beam back to Earth. 612 00:29:30,810 --> 00:29:33,897 This was what happened in Washington 613 00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:35,732 in 1952. 614 00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:38,693 [Jacob Misra] Donald Menzel was a scientist who worked with 615 00:29:38,777 --> 00:29:40,028 Project Blue Book, 616 00:29:40,111 --> 00:29:43,323 and he took it to be one of his personal tasks in 617 00:29:43,406 --> 00:29:47,160 his career to challenge and debunk many of these UFO cases. 618 00:29:47,952 --> 00:29:51,498 Menzel and McDonald definitely went head-to-head many times. 619 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,292 [James McDonald] Dr. Menzel, I cannot agree with the 620 00:29:54,375 --> 00:29:57,962 optical, physical, astronomical principles. 621 00:29:58,046 --> 00:30:03,593 I do not believe they represent scientifically sound analyses. 622 00:30:05,303 --> 00:30:07,347 [Donald Menzel] It’s time that we put an end 623 00:30:07,430 --> 00:30:09,682 to chasing ghosts, hobgoblins, 624 00:30:09,766 --> 00:30:12,018 visions and hallucinations. 625 00:30:12,769 --> 00:30:14,813 And as for the true believers, 626 00:30:14,896 --> 00:30:16,314 bless their little hearts, 627 00:30:16,397 --> 00:30:18,900 let them go on believing in UFOs, 628 00:30:18,983 --> 00:30:21,027 fairies, or Santa Claus, if they want to. 629 00:30:22,821 --> 00:30:24,948 [host] Mr. McDonald, you have been highly critical 630 00:30:25,031 --> 00:30:28,284 of your own government's attitude towards UFOs. 631 00:30:28,827 --> 00:30:30,537 -Indeed, indeed I have, yes. 632 00:30:30,620 --> 00:30:32,330 I've taken a very good look at the American official 633 00:30:32,413 --> 00:30:34,582 investigation program, Project Blue Book, 634 00:30:34,999 --> 00:30:37,627 run by the Air Force, and I have quite unequivocally 635 00:30:37,710 --> 00:30:39,963 described it to scientific colleagues back in the States 636 00:30:40,046 --> 00:30:41,756 as "superficial and incompetent." 637 00:30:43,091 --> 00:30:45,635 [Jacob Misra] As McDonald became more interested and 638 00:30:45,718 --> 00:30:49,097 especially vocal in his advocacy for studying UFOs, 639 00:30:49,764 --> 00:30:53,601 it definitely led him to a professional isolation. 640 00:30:54,727 --> 00:30:58,189 He received not just pushback, but ridicule and harassment. 641 00:31:00,191 --> 00:31:02,402 [Marik Von Rennenkampff] In 1971 he testified in front 642 00:31:02,485 --> 00:31:05,989 of Congress, not about UFOs, but about dangers 643 00:31:06,072 --> 00:31:07,615 to the Ozone Layer. 644 00:31:07,699 --> 00:31:09,325 [Wes Watters] McDonald was one of the very first 645 00:31:09,409 --> 00:31:12,120 atmospheric scientists worried about the Ozone Layer. 646 00:31:13,538 --> 00:31:15,123 [Marik Von Rennenkampff] One of the members of 647 00:31:15,206 --> 00:31:16,583 Congress asked, basically, 648 00:31:16,666 --> 00:31:19,335 “If you believe in little green men and flying saucers, 649 00:31:19,419 --> 00:31:21,588 how can I take your testimony on the depletion of 650 00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:23,006 the ozone layer seriously?” 651 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,426 -This completely discredited his testimony. 652 00:31:26,509 --> 00:31:28,386 And in science your reputation is everything. 653 00:31:29,721 --> 00:31:32,390 Ultimately, his funding sources were attacked and taken away. 654 00:31:33,433 --> 00:31:35,435 [Jacob Misra] It did not take a good toll on his 655 00:31:35,518 --> 00:31:37,061 mental health, arguably. 656 00:31:37,145 --> 00:31:40,148 And unfortunately, he died at the age of 51. 657 00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:43,651 He was found in the desert with a gun and what appeared to 658 00:31:43,735 --> 00:31:45,278 be a suicide note. 659 00:31:51,117 --> 00:31:53,661 We can only speculate as to what was really going 660 00:31:53,745 --> 00:31:55,538 on in his head. 661 00:31:55,622 --> 00:31:58,374 I think there were some things going on in his 662 00:31:58,458 --> 00:32:00,710 personal life that may have been a factor. 663 00:32:01,586 --> 00:32:02,837 But of course, 664 00:32:02,921 --> 00:32:06,215 when you face significant pushback from your 665 00:32:06,299 --> 00:32:09,427 colleagues for doing what you believe is acting 666 00:32:09,510 --> 00:32:11,095 in integrity as a scientist, 667 00:32:11,179 --> 00:32:13,806 one can only imagine that that might have been 668 00:32:13,890 --> 00:32:16,768 at least a factor in what led him to such a terrible end. 669 00:32:23,316 --> 00:32:26,069 For scientists who believe that there is 670 00:32:26,152 --> 00:32:27,946 something to be studied, 671 00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:30,865 McDonald, he created the template for how to do this. 672 00:32:31,741 --> 00:32:34,702 And he inspired scientists to talk about things, 673 00:32:34,786 --> 00:32:36,371 even if there might be backlash, 674 00:32:36,454 --> 00:32:38,331 there might be stigmatization. 675 00:32:38,414 --> 00:32:39,749 [Garry Nolan] This is a turning point. 676 00:32:39,832 --> 00:32:43,586 And there’s a whole expanding field of scientists who agree 677 00:32:43,670 --> 00:32:45,463 that the data is interesting and worth following up. 678 00:32:49,467 --> 00:32:51,970 [♪ whimsical music playing] 679 00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:01,521 -The objective here is to bring people like this together 680 00:33:01,604 --> 00:33:04,440 to legitimize and professionalize your ideas. 681 00:33:05,942 --> 00:33:08,778 [Leslie Kean] The SOL Foundation is a research think tank 682 00:33:08,861 --> 00:33:11,948 set up by Professor Garry Nolan and his colleague 683 00:33:12,031 --> 00:33:13,783 Peter Skafish, 684 00:33:13,866 --> 00:33:18,287 to pull together some of the best thinkers and scientists 685 00:33:18,371 --> 00:33:20,832 who are looking into the UAP issue. 686 00:33:22,875 --> 00:33:24,919 [Garry Nolan] I think the SOL Foundation is meant to be 687 00:33:25,003 --> 00:33:26,671 an agent of change. 688 00:33:26,754 --> 00:33:29,298 Here you now have everybody realizing that it’s possible to 689 00:33:29,382 --> 00:33:31,884 talk about this and that they’re not going to be booed 690 00:33:31,968 --> 00:33:33,302 out of the room. 691 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:36,848 My name is Garry Nolan. 692 00:33:36,931 --> 00:33:39,392 I'm a professor in the Department of Pathology at the 693 00:33:39,475 --> 00:33:41,227 Stanford University of Medicine. 694 00:33:42,478 --> 00:33:44,105 I’m a laboratory scientist. 695 00:33:44,188 --> 00:33:45,356 I’m a practicing scientist. 696 00:33:47,108 --> 00:33:51,654 My laboratory focuses largely on biology in cancer and 697 00:33:52,613 --> 00:33:54,157 autoimmune diseases. 698 00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:57,535 [Leslie Kean] Some scientists have been looking out 699 00:33:57,618 --> 00:34:00,204 into the universe, or even in our own atmosphere, 700 00:34:00,621 --> 00:34:02,790 to try to study UFOs. 701 00:34:02,874 --> 00:34:07,170 Others are focused on collecting materials from sites 702 00:34:07,253 --> 00:34:10,715 where UFOs have supposedly either crashed or landed to 703 00:34:10,798 --> 00:34:13,593 just try and understand the nature of the material that is 704 00:34:13,676 --> 00:34:15,386 associated with the craft. 705 00:34:16,220 --> 00:34:18,890 -How do you get involved in UFOs? 706 00:34:19,474 --> 00:34:22,351 -So it was actually rather unexpected. 707 00:34:25,897 --> 00:34:28,566 Around 2012, I got a knock on my door in my office at 708 00:34:28,649 --> 00:34:30,777 Stanford and there were these two gentlemen 709 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:33,571 standing there outside from the CIA and 710 00:34:33,654 --> 00:34:35,782 a aeronautics corporation. 711 00:34:37,033 --> 00:34:40,620 They started talking about UFOs and they wanted my help. 712 00:34:41,496 --> 00:34:43,831 To be honest, at the time I thought it was a joke. 713 00:34:44,415 --> 00:34:46,125 I actually thought it was a Candid Camera moment 714 00:34:46,209 --> 00:34:47,168 of some sort. 715 00:34:47,251 --> 00:34:48,586 I kept looking around to see if there was a camera 716 00:34:48,669 --> 00:34:50,463 somewhere else pointed at me. 717 00:34:50,797 --> 00:34:53,382 But they were serious, and uh, deadly serious. 718 00:34:53,925 --> 00:34:55,843 I couldn't get them to laugh about anything. 719 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,014 They had heard that my lab had made one of the deepest immune 720 00:35:00,098 --> 00:35:03,893 profiling devices in the world, the mass spectrometer. 721 00:35:05,144 --> 00:35:07,105 [Jacob Misra] With mass spectrometry, 722 00:35:07,188 --> 00:35:10,191 you essentially can analyze samples and figure out what 723 00:35:10,274 --> 00:35:13,820 atoms and what molecules are in that sample. 724 00:35:14,529 --> 00:35:17,031 Is this something we know or is this something unusual? 725 00:35:18,032 --> 00:35:21,786 -What the CIA wanted from me was help in understanding 726 00:35:21,869 --> 00:35:24,372 the blood of people who had claimed that they 727 00:35:24,455 --> 00:35:26,916 had seen UFOs to help them understand what 728 00:35:26,999 --> 00:35:28,668 had happened to these people. 729 00:35:30,294 --> 00:35:31,838 But as I got deeper and deeper into it, 730 00:35:31,921 --> 00:35:34,966 it became pretty clear that several of these patients, 731 00:35:35,049 --> 00:35:37,635 these events had happened to them up to a decade before. 732 00:35:38,386 --> 00:35:39,595 And so there wasn't gonna be anything I would be 733 00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:41,556 able to find in the blood. 734 00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:43,474 But as I developed a relationship with these 735 00:35:43,558 --> 00:35:45,476 individuals from the CIA, 736 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,854 they started saying, “Okay, well, we also have 737 00:35:47,937 --> 00:35:51,482 these materials that supposedly some of these 738 00:35:51,566 --> 00:35:53,276 craft had left behind. 739 00:35:53,651 --> 00:35:55,403 What would you do with them?” 740 00:35:56,863 --> 00:35:59,907 [Leslie Kean] Garry Nolan's mass spectrometer can analyze 741 00:35:59,991 --> 00:36:01,784 the composition of blood samples, 742 00:36:02,118 --> 00:36:04,453 and it can do the same thing for non-biological 743 00:36:04,537 --> 00:36:06,122 physical materials. 744 00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:09,876 After Garry got involved with doing some of these studies 745 00:36:09,959 --> 00:36:11,502 with the physical material, 746 00:36:11,586 --> 00:36:13,796 he met Jacques Vallée because Jacques Vallée had 747 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:16,007 been interested in the very same thing for decades. 748 00:36:16,757 --> 00:36:18,134 -Welcome back to On the Record. 749 00:36:18,217 --> 00:36:21,179 Dr. Jacques Vallée is an astrophysicist who provided the 750 00:36:21,262 --> 00:36:23,931 inspiration for the character of the French scientist 751 00:36:24,015 --> 00:36:25,141 in the film, 752 00:36:25,224 --> 00:36:27,351 Close Encounters of the Third Kind. 753 00:36:27,435 --> 00:36:29,145 [speaking in French]. 754 00:36:29,228 --> 00:36:30,897 [translator] This is a small group of people... 755 00:36:31,314 --> 00:36:32,982 [speaking in French]. 756 00:36:33,065 --> 00:36:35,276 [translator] Who have shared a vision in common. 757 00:36:36,027 --> 00:36:37,570 -Look... 758 00:36:40,698 --> 00:36:43,075 [Garry Nolan] Jacques Vallée is probably one of the best-known 759 00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:46,495 thinkers in the area of anomalous phenomena. 760 00:36:48,122 --> 00:36:49,665 [host] You are something of an anomaly, 761 00:36:49,749 --> 00:36:51,167 I mean a real scientist who's studying... 762 00:36:51,250 --> 00:36:54,420 -Well, there are a few of us, there are a few of us. 763 00:36:54,503 --> 00:36:56,130 Most of them stay underground because they don’t want 764 00:36:56,214 --> 00:36:57,798 to put their jobs in jeopardy. 765 00:36:58,424 --> 00:37:02,511 -Tell me how long you have been looking at UFOs, UAP? 766 00:37:03,387 --> 00:37:07,600 -I’ve um lost um lost count of that. 767 00:37:09,769 --> 00:37:12,521 My background has been mostly in computer science. 768 00:37:13,397 --> 00:37:16,943 I've built about 15 different databases on UFOs. 769 00:37:17,610 --> 00:37:21,030 And I've investigated cases all over the world. 770 00:37:21,822 --> 00:37:25,409 And I started gathering materials or metals that were 771 00:37:25,493 --> 00:37:29,830 deposited around encounters with UFOs and UFO observations. 772 00:37:31,415 --> 00:37:33,668 [Garry Nolan] That mass spectrometer and the ability to 773 00:37:33,751 --> 00:37:37,296 measure metals was I think what triggered Jacques’ 774 00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:39,632 interest because he had these metals and 775 00:37:39,715 --> 00:37:42,051 it was like, "Well, okay, can you help us analyze 776 00:37:42,134 --> 00:37:43,844 these materials?" 777 00:37:44,387 --> 00:37:46,597 So Jacques, start with the new cases. 778 00:37:46,681 --> 00:37:48,933 -There was an observation of a large, 779 00:37:49,016 --> 00:37:51,435 bright object close to a road. 780 00:37:51,811 --> 00:37:54,313 Now we, we have the actual material. 781 00:37:55,815 --> 00:37:58,359 [Garry Nolan] He came with some simple materials at the 782 00:37:58,442 --> 00:37:59,860 beginning and as the results started 783 00:37:59,944 --> 00:38:01,070 getting more interesting, 784 00:38:01,153 --> 00:38:03,906 he brought some more interesting materials to study. 785 00:38:04,615 --> 00:38:07,493 Like the Council Bluffs story, as an example. 786 00:38:09,912 --> 00:38:13,582 In 1977, Council Bluffs, Iowa, 787 00:38:13,666 --> 00:38:17,920 at least three groups of people saw a object 788 00:38:18,254 --> 00:38:19,964 or at least lights that were in the sky, 789 00:38:20,756 --> 00:38:23,467 and something appeared to drop from the object. 790 00:38:25,177 --> 00:38:26,721 [Jacques Vallée] There were 11 witnesses in 791 00:38:26,804 --> 00:38:28,556 three different locations. 792 00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:31,851 All their views converged over that particular spot. 793 00:38:33,227 --> 00:38:36,605 And then the people who were in the park itself found 794 00:38:36,689 --> 00:38:40,526 that there was a mass of metal. 795 00:38:41,277 --> 00:38:44,071 It was melting. It was red. 796 00:38:44,155 --> 00:38:46,157 [Garry Nolan] Somebody along the way called the police. 797 00:38:46,657 --> 00:38:48,701 And the police arrived very quickly thereafter. 798 00:38:49,076 --> 00:38:53,247 Jacques did get a piece of the material from one 799 00:38:53,331 --> 00:38:54,790 of the witnesses. 800 00:38:55,124 --> 00:38:57,918 And he got the original photographs, the Polaroids, 801 00:38:58,919 --> 00:39:00,755 from the police. 802 00:39:00,838 --> 00:39:03,007 So, you know, I mean, that's about as good as it gets. 803 00:39:04,592 --> 00:39:07,970 [Jacques Vallée] So how do you get a half a ton of molten 804 00:39:08,054 --> 00:39:10,139 steel falling from the sky? 805 00:39:11,265 --> 00:39:12,933 That's what we have to explain. 806 00:39:17,855 --> 00:39:19,815 [Jacques Vallée] The case of Council Bluffs, 807 00:39:19,899 --> 00:39:22,777 it's certainly an interesting whodunnit. 808 00:39:23,652 --> 00:39:26,072 Now at the time people thought it could be 809 00:39:26,155 --> 00:39:27,990 a satellite reentry. 810 00:39:28,491 --> 00:39:31,869 So this escalated to NASA and to the Air Force. 811 00:39:32,495 --> 00:39:34,747 Everybody was on the same team, 812 00:39:34,830 --> 00:39:35,998 which is very rare. 813 00:39:36,082 --> 00:39:38,959 All the hypotheses were looked at in detail 814 00:39:39,043 --> 00:39:41,170 by professional investigators. 815 00:39:42,922 --> 00:39:44,882 So the first thing they thought it might be 816 00:39:44,965 --> 00:39:46,634 was a Russian satellite, 817 00:39:47,635 --> 00:39:51,222 but satellite debris is not molten when it gets to ground. 818 00:39:52,556 --> 00:39:55,935 -It was clear it wasn't a meteor because a 819 00:39:56,018 --> 00:39:58,396 meteor doesn't leave pools of molten metal on the ground. 820 00:39:59,063 --> 00:40:00,898 A meteor leaves a hole. 821 00:40:01,399 --> 00:40:04,610 -So all that was eliminated one by one and 822 00:40:04,693 --> 00:40:07,696 then NASA and the Air Force gave up their investigation. 823 00:40:08,656 --> 00:40:12,159 So this was perfect for Dr. Nolan to start looking 824 00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:15,037 because we knew this was a real case. 825 00:40:16,163 --> 00:40:19,125 -And so we start analyzing what it's made of. 826 00:40:20,167 --> 00:40:23,754 -In 2021, Garry Nolan and Jacques Vallée published the 827 00:40:23,838 --> 00:40:25,131 results of their study. 828 00:40:25,548 --> 00:40:28,050 And they were able to present some unusual properties 829 00:40:28,134 --> 00:40:29,718 of this material. 830 00:40:30,344 --> 00:40:32,555 [Garry Nolan] In the Council Bluffs event, 831 00:40:32,972 --> 00:40:35,433 the material on the ground was incompletely mixed 832 00:40:35,933 --> 00:40:38,686 which is strange because for instance if 833 00:40:38,769 --> 00:40:41,772 you’re making cement you add all the constituents and 834 00:40:41,856 --> 00:40:44,859 then you mix them thoroughly because if they’re not 835 00:40:44,942 --> 00:40:47,236 thoroughly mixed you’re gonna get cracks. 836 00:40:47,945 --> 00:40:50,281 That’s a flaw in the structure and then 837 00:40:50,364 --> 00:40:51,949 the thing will break. 838 00:40:52,450 --> 00:40:55,244 -You don't find partially mixed compounds being 839 00:40:55,327 --> 00:40:59,498 used for industrial purposes and especially not out in the 840 00:40:59,582 --> 00:41:02,001 middle of nowhere dropping off of some kind of object 841 00:41:02,376 --> 00:41:04,336 in the sky in a molten state. 842 00:41:04,795 --> 00:41:06,714 The fact that it's incompletely mixed just makes 843 00:41:06,797 --> 00:41:08,424 it even stranger. 844 00:41:09,133 --> 00:41:11,469 [Garry Nolan] The objects are not just natural. 845 00:41:11,552 --> 00:41:14,513 The objects are manufactured in some manner. 846 00:41:15,222 --> 00:41:18,684 Part of some industrial process that had engineered them. 847 00:41:19,018 --> 00:41:22,521 Now there've been all kinds of attempts to disapprove it, 848 00:41:23,105 --> 00:41:25,816 even recently, somebody claiming it was just a hoax. 849 00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:29,612 Well, could somebody have carried this much metal here? 850 00:41:29,695 --> 00:41:32,114 What's the closest foundry where such metal 851 00:41:32,198 --> 00:41:33,491 might be produced? 852 00:41:33,574 --> 00:41:35,743 There was none anywhere nearby. 853 00:41:36,660 --> 00:41:38,287 There were no railway cars that had gone nearby. 854 00:41:38,370 --> 00:41:40,247 There were no tire tracks anywhere nearby that would show 855 00:41:40,331 --> 00:41:42,291 that it had been dumped. 856 00:41:42,625 --> 00:41:46,045 I'm not saying that it proves that it's a UAP. 857 00:41:46,545 --> 00:41:49,548 These are just all intriguing data points. 858 00:41:49,632 --> 00:41:52,259 And so I want to study as many materials as possible. 859 00:41:53,511 --> 00:41:57,264 We’re actually setting up standardized testing, 860 00:41:57,348 --> 00:42:00,100 basically creating a federation of other scientists 861 00:42:00,184 --> 00:42:02,895 who can analyze the data freely available. 862 00:42:03,479 --> 00:42:05,898 I can’t look at everything and know the answers but I 863 00:42:05,981 --> 00:42:08,108 want to get the data out there so everybody can. 864 00:42:09,443 --> 00:42:11,612 [Jacques Vallée] I think there is a lesson there that you don't 865 00:42:11,695 --> 00:42:14,198 want to be alone raising the issue. 866 00:42:14,698 --> 00:42:16,951 You have to build a coalition first, 867 00:42:17,034 --> 00:42:19,370 and I think that's what we're seeing now. 868 00:42:20,204 --> 00:42:23,165 We can have a coalition of scientists, 869 00:42:23,249 --> 00:42:26,043 but one man is not going to get anywhere. 870 00:42:27,628 --> 00:42:32,216 Dr. McDonald was a single scientist and he was 871 00:42:32,675 --> 00:42:37,304 essentially dismissed, didn't really get a real study going. 872 00:42:39,765 --> 00:42:42,601 [Kevin Knuth] But the impact that James McDonald had is 873 00:42:42,685 --> 00:42:44,603 important because he advocated for a 874 00:42:44,687 --> 00:42:46,605 scientific approach to UFOs. 875 00:42:47,231 --> 00:42:48,857 They should be studied in detail, 876 00:42:48,941 --> 00:42:51,610 with multiple types of instruments, 877 00:42:51,694 --> 00:42:53,612 which is what we're trying to do today. 878 00:42:53,696 --> 00:42:57,032 There should be multiple disciplines involved such as 879 00:42:57,116 --> 00:42:59,159 physics, chemistry, biology. 880 00:43:00,452 --> 00:43:02,288 [Garry Nolan] With the UAP phenomena, 881 00:43:02,371 --> 00:43:04,498 the alternative explanations are narrowing, 882 00:43:05,457 --> 00:43:07,042 are being reduced. 883 00:43:07,459 --> 00:43:10,879 And that to me is exciting because if the answer is that 884 00:43:10,963 --> 00:43:13,257 these things are not from here, 885 00:43:13,924 --> 00:43:16,385 that's an even bigger turning point for humanity. 886 00:43:22,641 --> 00:43:24,727 -I saw this bright white light. 887 00:43:24,810 --> 00:43:26,437 I suddenly felt weird. 888 00:43:27,229 --> 00:43:29,565 And I felt like my skin was on fire. 889 00:43:29,648 --> 00:43:31,692 I remember thinking, "Oh my God, I'm dead." 890 00:43:33,193 --> 00:43:34,862 -If you talk to experiencers, 891 00:43:34,945 --> 00:43:37,740 their story’s going to get really weird really fast. 892 00:43:38,866 --> 00:43:42,202 -I can remember being levitated out of the car. 893 00:43:43,287 --> 00:43:45,289 -When you’re sitting with an experiencer, 894 00:43:45,372 --> 00:43:47,124 it feels like there has been something traumatic 895 00:43:47,207 --> 00:43:48,959 that has happened. 896 00:43:49,043 --> 00:43:50,919 [Leslie Kean] When you have a mystery that big, 897 00:43:51,003 --> 00:43:52,379 it’s valuable to study it. 898 00:43:52,463 --> 00:43:55,591 There’s a lot that can be learned from experiencers. 899 00:43:55,966 --> 00:43:57,468 -I looked up, and all of a sudden I’m like, 900 00:43:57,551 --> 00:43:58,844 I’m on a UFO. 901 00:43:58,927 --> 00:43:59,970 Captioned by Cotter Media Group.